Eratosphere Forums - Metrical Poetry, Free Verse, Fiction, Art, Critique, Discussions Able Muse - a review of poetry, prose and art

Forum Left Top

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Unread 06-01-2021, 05:58 AM
Matt Q Matt Q is online now
Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: England, UK
Posts: 4,110
Default Letter

Postscript (R1)

And blight? Each night some stalwart frost
steals fox-like in, and is come morning
vanished – no trace, bar blossoms

trailed like chicken blood up to the hedge.
So much for spring and all its ragtime
song and dance. You know, I ate sakura once

and found it to my liking. The flesh of horses,
like all flesh, is transient as any blossom,
yet less inclined to launch itself gung-ho

onto the wind. That was the taste of it,
as I recall: the taste of pulling back.
Of all the gifts, waiting is most often given,

at least to me. I plant each ribboned box
in fields where fattened horses pace. In time,
a fox arrives. In time, the waiting blossoms.

----------------------------

New title.

S1L1 "And blight?" replaces "On blight"

S2L3 "more reluctant" becomes "less inclined" largely because it's more iambic, plus the alliteration.

S2L3 - S3L1 Now enjambing on "gung-ho" instread of "itself"

S4L4, from "waiting is one too often given" to "waiting is most often given".





Epistle

On blight: each night some stalwart frost
steals fox-like in, and is come morning
vanished – no trace, bar blossoms

trailed like chicken blood up to the hedge.
So much for spring and all its ragtime
song and dance. You know, I ate sakura once

and found it to my liking. The flesh of horses,
like all flesh, is transient as any blossom,
yet more reluctant to launch itself

gung-ho onto the wind. That was the taste of it,
as I recall: the taste of pulling back.
Of all the gifts, waiting is one too often given,

at least to me. I plant each ribboned box
in fields where fattened horses pace. In time,
a fox arrives. In time, the waiting blossoms.


--------------------
S3L1 semicolon becomes a full-stop

.

Last edited by Matt Q; 06-14-2021 at 07:30 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Unread 06-01-2021, 10:03 AM
Max Goodman Max Goodman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 1,958
Default

FWIW, I love spring's "ragtime/song and dance."
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Unread 06-01-2021, 01:20 PM
Sarah-Jane Crowson's Avatar
Sarah-Jane Crowson Sarah-Jane Crowson is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 627
Default

Hi,

Love the word-play between your thread title and the poem’s title. Having said that, I think the title is something I’d work at - it’s a poem that the right title could make or break.
Maybe consider - ’slippages’, which will give people a key as to how to read the poem, too.

I liked this when I first read it (apologies, all - I regularly write with Matt in a different space to this one - a generative rather than a critical space) and I like it still. It’s nice to get the chance to look at it a bit closer.

So, the first thing I like is the personification of frost as fox, and how that’s extended in S2. I also like the slipping of meaning that leads to ‘sakura’ (which makes a visual sense from chicken-blood and the fox, but not a direct linear sense, so it takes me into a different type of space, but very seamlessly). And, in a similar way, the clever verbal move from Spring to sakura as viande chevaline and sakura as cherry blossom as transient works beautifully.

I’m less sure that ‘gung-ho’ works. The etymology works in a sense, but from the little I know of horses they’re quite happy to launch themselves as a group (or on their own) into the wind. So, there’s a dissonance which works at odds with the smooth slipping of meanings sense of the rest of the poem, even if the antecedents of the word-choice might fit nicely.

I love how you wrap (bad pun) the whole poem up in S5. Very clever, but you don’t sacrifice the rhythmic sense or imagistic sense of the poem at the altar of clever-clever. Like all complex things done well, it sounds simple – as if it ‘just happened’ – even if it didn’t (and although you might very well come back and say ‘oh, but it did just happen’ then I’d ask you whether it ever could/might have happened without the years of writing practice). Because I doubt it.

I’ll be super-interested to see what other people here think to this poem. I’m probably biased towards it, because of how it uses word-level choices in the structure, and how it uses images, and because it leans towards the surreal (without ever being fractured - it’s very well-controlled but the authorial voice (if you like) is also very subtle).

Sarah-Jane
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Unread 06-02-2021, 07:42 AM
Andrew Frisardi Andrew Frisardi is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Lazio, Italy
Posts: 5,419
Default

I like it a lot, Matt, though it seems more like a “Plaint” than an “Epistle,” since there’s no discernible addressee. Is that the point: loneliness writing to no one?

I enjoy how this opens with straightforward metaphor and statement and segues into non sequitur.

The horse flesh after the cherry blossoms (I had to look up sakura) would go down easier, pardon the pun, if there were a period after “liking.” That would signal the more abrupt shift.

The settling of the various images at the bottom or end is a lovely and poignant summing up of the poem’s contrasts.

A couple things:

I’d like commas before and after “come morning” in L2.

I agree with Sarah-Jane about “gung-ho” in S4L1. Do you need an adverb there. Maybe, but I also wonder if “launch itself” could be improved upon. I don’t have an alternative in mind, but that verb for me suggests a more rocket-like motion, whereas the blossoms fall and are blown about. I think what you’re getting at is unselfconscious risk-taking or self-surrender, but launching and especially gung-ho launching sounds more aggressive or perhaps guarded.

Best,

Andrew
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Unread 06-03-2021, 06:50 AM
Mark McDonnell Mark McDonnell is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Staffordshire, England
Posts: 4,109
Default

Hi Matt,

I thought this was excellent, even when I had no idea what was going on, because the voice was so assured and I loved the way “blossoms” becomes a verb at the end. I had to do some detective work to establish that sakura can mean both “cherry blossom” and “horse meat”. I still don’t quite get what’s going on, in the sense of being able to entirely follow the extended metaphor. But I get enough to give me a sense of the idea of waiting for things that don’t transpire, of spoiled chances or missed opportunity perhaps.

Anyway, I really like it and it makes me want to spend longer with it. An accomplished poem, I think.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Unread 06-05-2021, 11:14 AM
Matt Q Matt Q is online now
Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: England, UK
Posts: 4,110
Default

Max, Sarah, Andrew and Mark,

Many thanks for reading and commenting. I'm pleased it's working well for the most part. I was a bit worried about putting a Japanese pun in a poem, so I'm glad that's not been overly troubling. I've been ill for much of the time since I posted it, so no revisions yet, but I wanted to acknowledge your critiques.

Max,

I'm glad that line worked for you.


Sarah and Andrew,

So the title was "Epistle" because it was a reply to another epistolary poem a friend wrote (this was during a poem-a-day-for-a-month challenge in April and we went back and forth for a few poems) so in a sense the "you" was implicit in that context. Afterwards I stuck with it, because, although there's no addressee, it still feels to me like a letter, an attempt to communicate, or a report from far away maybe. I like what Andrew says about loneliness writing to no one. That said, there's probably a better title somewhere and I'll see what I can come up with.


Sarah,

I was interested to read you saying "the little I know of horses they’re quite happy to launch themselves as a group (or on their own) into the wind", because it showed me that this line could be read in a way I hadn't anticipated. I was thinking: blossoms are transient, impermanent; flesh is intransient too. We mammals also die, but we tend to be more reluctant than blossom. Hence the horseflesh tastes of pulling back (from death). That's what I was going for, I'd be interested to know if that came across. So, hmm. I didn't occur to me that horses might enjoy launching themselves into the wind -- I'd only seen that line in relation to death. I guess, I did write "onto" the wind, not "into", which seems to me to imply flight or gliding -- but maybe not strongly enough?


Andrew,

I agree that blossoms don't actively and enthusiastically launch themselves onto the wind, but are mindlessly blown of the branches and carried by the wind. But the former depiction seems to better contrast with mammals' reluctance to die. Though perhaps the death aspect isn't coming across? I'd be interested to know. And maybe there is a better word than "launch", especially if you associate it with rockets rather than with launching boats or leaping off things, say.

I wanted to indicate that horse-flesh is connected to sakura, but the semicolon is wrong as you say. I changed that semicolon for an em-dash (EDIT: and then later to a full stop as you suggested!)


Mark,

I'm really glad this worked for you. Yes, detective work is needed for the Japanese pun, which was a worry, but it sounds like there were enough clues, which is good news. I hoped that in the last sentence "blossoms" could work as a noun or a verb. Sort of: here is is the fox and the blossoms that are waiting (for it), which brings us back to the opening scenario. But also, a more hopeful, "having been planted, the waiting grows and blossoms".

Thanks again everyone,

Matt

Last edited by Matt Q; 06-06-2021 at 01:05 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Unread 06-08-2021, 10:52 AM
John Riley John Riley is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 4,817
Default

Matt, I'm sorry I took so long to get to this and I am also very sorry I was so late getting to this. This is a great poem. The transition first to eating horse flesh and then the transition to "pulling back" and the gift of waiting is all so smoothly done and strong at the same time. This is a metaphysical poem about the great metaphysical theme:

Quote:
The flesh of horses,
like all flesh, is transient as any blossom
Me being me I do want to say I am a little unsure about the last stanza. I'm a notorious end chopper but do wonder if it ended with

Quote:
Of all the gifts, waiting is one too often given
would it leave me a little more out in space? The burying of the box brings me back to the earth and I wonder about it. Maybe mess around and see what you think.

This is a brilliant poem and I mean brilliant in an old-fashioned way. It's full of light. I love it.

Best
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Unread 06-08-2021, 12:30 PM
John Isbell John Isbell is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: TX
Posts: 5,427
Default

Hi Matt,

I'll comment before reading the thread, for the sake of first impressions.

To my ear, this poem repeatedly rings true, which is a quality I encounter less often than I'd like. It has the music, the vocabulary and syntax of poetry. That's the main thing really. For instance, the boldness of "is come morning / vanished," or the elegance of "You know, I ate sakura once." Reading is constantly rewarded - it challenges, neither too hard nor too easy, as they say the mind delights in. Nice to write stuff this good.

Beyond that, I have the usual handful of suggestions. I can't fathom the first two words. I might put a period after "sakura once" and do something else to open the next tercet. I'm unconvinced by "reluctant" - horses shy, maybe that would offer something useful. This I think could be better formulated: "That was the taste of it, / as I recall: the taste of pulling back." Maybe "waiting's" instead of waiting is? The clause feels a bit flaccid to me. And finally, would you consider blossom in the singular to end? It is ambiguous, and I think it works.

So: lovely stuff. Thanks for the treat,
John
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Unread 06-13-2021, 11:43 AM
Mary Meriam's Avatar
Mary Meriam Mary Meriam is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: usa
Posts: 7,589
Default

Hi Matt, I agree with the others: brilliant, accomplished, excellent. Also, I love it. When I first read it, I was lost, but in a good way. I didn't know sakura, but once I knew, I wasn't lost anymore. I actually kind of missed that feeling. It's a feeling of knowing I've been presented with something to learn, which is exciting. Reading and re-reading your poems is always a pleasurable adventure. If I could find anything to crit, I would, but I can only find things to praise.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Unread 06-13-2021, 01:22 PM
Matt Q Matt Q is online now
Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: England, UK
Posts: 4,110
Default

John, John, Andrew, Woody, David, and Mary

Thanks everyone for reading and commenting. Still no revisions -- this one may have to sit for a while before I change things -- but all your points are useful.

John R,

I'll give some thought to opening out the ending. I do think it's ambiguous as to whether the waiting blossoms (upbeat ending) or the blossoms are waiting (downbeat/circular ending), but it's certainly very tidy, in that with all the various strands are woven together. Maybe that would benefit from being loosened.

John I,

With "on blight", I just mean: "on the subject of blight". Originally I was responding to another poem which wrote of blight. That essentially want I want to say: on the subject of blight, this is what's happening to me, this my experience of blight -- the fox-like frost and its impact on the blossom. Out of context I'd agree it's a bit blunt and it's useful to know that it doesn't make sense to you. Maybe "regarding blight:" would make for a better opening? Or even "And blight?"

On the close: if I change last word to "the waiting blossom" I'd lose the reading that waiting eventually blossoms -- the hopeful reading of the close.BANNED POST

Andrew,

Thanks for coming back and elaborating. My intention here isn't coming across, which is useful to know. Yes, we don't (always) choose when we die (physically, spiritually or otherwise), but we do vary in our attitudes toward it. I imagine that the fattened horses being led to abattoir pull back once they know what is happening -- that they are averse to death, as are most living creatures. The blossom, at least according to the poem, launches itself onto the wind, embraces its end -- or at least, according to the poem, it is less reluctant to die than the horses.

I can see this line would likely benefit from being changed. As Sarah has pointed out, it's also open to being misread insofar as there's as sense in which horses do enjoy launching themselves onto the wind. But though I've tried, I've not yet come up with something better. I've not given up yet though.

Woody,

I did contemplate posting this Met as heterometric; the poem is almost entirely iambic. Thanks for the suggestion of an alternative to "gung ho". There may perhaps be something odd about a Chinese loan-word in a poem with a Japanese word. I hadn't really thought about it's etymology when I wrote the poem.

David,

See my reply to John I on the intention behind "on blight". Useful to know that it also wasn't clear to you. It would be very hard to lose "sakura" from the poem and still have it be the same poem. I guess people differ in the extent to which they'll google a word they don't know, and fair enough. Maybe I'll lose some readers that way, but I can't see a way around that.

Mary
,

Thank-you! There's no much else to say to a critique like that


-Matt
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



Forum Right Top
Forum Left Bottom Forum Right Bottom
 
Right Left
Member Login
Forgot password?
Forum LeftForum Right


Forum Statistics:
Forum Members: 8,207
Total Threads: 20,654
Total Posts: 262,231
There are 270 users
currently browsing forums.
Forum LeftForum Right


Forum Sponsor:
Donate & Support Able Muse / Eratosphere
Forum LeftForum Right
Right Right
Right Bottom Left Right Bottom Right

Hosted by ApplauZ Online